An Interview with UK saxophonist Vaughan Hawthorne-Nelson by Nick Browne

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Who are your main influences on the saxophone?

On the saxophone that’s a difficult question to answer. I have influences for different things really. I mean as an alto player the standard response is going to be Charlie Parker because you can’t not be. So he was obviously a very big influence, but later on John Coltrane. Those are probably my biggest two. Sound wise; Jan Garbarek, and Johnny Hodges have influenced me. In terms of approach probably Wayne Shorter and Joe Henderson and also Eric Dolphy. But yeh Coltrane continues to be a big influence on my music and life.

Would he be the main one player you have tried to take from to put into your own playing?

Yes as I have said, in terms of that process most saxophone or jazz musicians go through of listening to the musicians they like and transcribing solos. It’s an even between Charlie Parker and Coltrane but I’ve probably spent more time learning and listening to Coltrane solos.

With regard to your early years, what was it that first got you interested in the saxophone?

That’s a funny story actually. I was already into music. I was learning the clarinet and piano and studying classical music, Mozart Concerto’s and that sort of thing. I was a big fan of ‘Fame’ the American TV series and one day there was this saxophone player doing his thing and I looked at my mum and said “I want to play the saxophone.” My parents rented an alto saxophone, just to see how I would get on and I took to it straight away. Things grew from there. I was fourteen at the time. Initially I didn’t get to jazz. It was all classical, but very quickly my teacher Geoff Corner introduced me to jazz and my dad was a real aficionado so between them I got into jazz and by sixteen I was very serious about wanting to be a jazz musician.

What sort of opportunities did you have to play jazz at that age?

When I first started not many. This was before the 80´s British Jazz resurgence led by Courtney Pine. There was not much around. I lived in Kent and the Kent Youth Jazz Orchestra was just starting, however I didn´t get in because my reading wasn´t good enough - so that was out. A part time music teacher joined our school who was into jazz. He formed a little jazz funk band which I joined. That was the only real outlet I had. When I was sixteen, they had the first Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshop in the UK. I went to that and it was a real eye opener. It was the first time I’d been exposed to proper professional jazz musicians.

So was it the Aebersold Workshop that more interest in jazz for you because you were surrounded by a lot of young players?

No because I didn’t get to be around young players until I got to Berklee. It just made me more enthusiastic. I mean, I was already listening to a lot of Charlie Parker. But I didn’t really have a clue about how jazz worked in terms of the theory of the art form. So when I got to the Aebersold course I was like, ‘Oh this is what it is!’ I really had a lot to learn, but I was determined that jazz was what I wanted to do.

Was it a tough decision to go to Berklee?

The decision was easy. My dad ordered prospectuses form all the different Universities and Colleges in the United States that offered jazz programmes. I did some research in the UK but there was only one course and that was a newly formed Diploma in Jazz Studies at Goldsmith’s College. It came down to a choice between I think Texas State University and Berklee in the end. I chose Berklee simply because so many great jazz musicians had gone there like, Quincy Jones, Keith Jarrett and Branford Marsalis who I was a very big fan of at the time. 

On getting to Berklee what did you make of it?

It was overwhelming because, as I said I came from a situation where I wasn’t playing much jazz with other people. So I was left with Aebersold Play-A-Longs and listening to Charlie Parker while trying to transcribe a few bits. But I really hadn’t got seriously into transcribing and although people said I was talented, my level of musicianship was not that high compared to my peers. In my first semester, I saw and heard so many musicians my age of such a high calibre and standard, I was almost at a loss as to where to begin. I met Julian Joseph there and he was 19 to my 17. He already knew Wynton Marsalis and performed regularly with Courtney Pine in London – it was completely different level.

The first year I was playing catch up, and aside from all the musical stuff, there was the fact that I was coming from a small town in the South-East of England and all the big cultural changes. So all in all after the first year, I felt I needed to get a lot more under my fingers. After the first year, I took a semester out and practiced at home for three months about eight hours a day. The time period was less important than an attitude threshold I went through, where I became very serious about the music. I also played with the Jazz Warriors and met and jammed with London based musicians like Jason Rebello, Simon Purcell and Toni Kofi. When I returned to Berklee I  felt a lot more confident and better able to make use of the experience.

The people you met there, you mentioned Julian Joseph, how did they influence you?

At that time Julian was like an older brother figure. He was a lot more socially aware . and he knew lot more about jazz. So he was a stabilising force and helped me to keep on track. Through him I met Branford Marsalis and his band and on occasions would travel with Julian when he played with Branford. I met many now well known musicians at Berklee; Delfeayo Marsalis who produced my first two albums, Scott Garland, Adam Salkeld. Mark Turner, Chris Speed, Jim Black, Geoff Keezer, Danilo Perez, Roy Hargrove, Antonio Hart and so many others That was the best thing about Berklee. You met so many great musicians and formed life long friendships with some.

Can you talk about how you developed as a composer?

Well that was quite quick for me. In fact early on my compositional ability was far in advance of my improvisation skills. My major at Berklee was performance and composition but I took to composing straight away. Playing piano helped and I would sit at the piano working out chord progressions based on the theory I was learning. I would use this as a platform to develop compositions. I was also fortunate to study with a great composer and pianist Donald Brown and he would give me feedback on my compositions. I listened a lot to Wayne Shorter, Keith Jarrett and Kenny Wheeler and tried to copy their approach to composition. In fact the composing process came I wouldn´t say easily, but more naturally to me.  I have made a conscious decision in the last couple of years to focus more on developing my improvisation skills. In fact improvising has at times been a real struggle for me technically – in terms of understanding and embedding form, rhythm and chord sequences. Interestingly it has changed the way I compose in many ways.

Do you find composing gives you more of a medium for musical expression than playing?

Well the two are connected. Thinking of the way a jazz musician plays, in a sense, although a simplification, you could say they are composing on the spot. And the fact that you compose and then improvise through your own composition gives you the best of both worlds. Fort me It’s a complete expression of who I am. But getting back to my development as a improviser. My own personal challenges in this area, have really forced me to look very closely at how I learn and I think has helped me become a better teacher, improviser and composer as a result.

When you compose are you inspired by particular life experiences?

Oh my God yes. It has changed over the years. Initially it wasn’t something I thought about consciously, I just went to the piano and started play .Very quickly it became expressions of things that were happening to and around me. For instance on my very first album is a tune called Thank You which came out what you could call a young man’s learning experience. At that time saxophonist Bobby Watson had become a good friend and mentor. I had stayed with him in New York and he had taken me under his wing. Upon retuning to Berklee we had a phone conversation and he went into a whole thing about how he had been brought up to respect others, anyway culminating in him telling me I hadn’t said thank you. I was really gutted, because it was contrary to the way I’d been raised, and I was so grateful to him for his help and support so I wrote that tune for him.  My compositions come out of life. On my second album there is a piece called The Path – the title track which was about my discovering the writings of Carl Jung, and beginning to think about the spiritual path of a human being through life. There is usually an emotion or a thought that sparks a process of creative development for me.

What was it like recording your own album at nineteen?

It was surreal. It was an interesting experience and something I wanted to do, but I also felt thrown in at the deep end. Musically I felt unprepared, but I am glad I did it. It’s helped me to progress my career and also look back at how far I have come as a musician and person.

Your later albums are very spiritually based and emotionally direct. What were the prompts that led you in this direction?

Well taking academic electives at Berklee in Philosophy and the writing of Carl Jung led me to question the role of a musician in contemporary society. I was by thenstudying the music and life of Coltrane and his personal journey and how it impacted his music began to absorb me. Parallel to this I had begun studying Martial Arts and meditation at a very traditional Japanese Dojo, which absorbed me deeper into the process of unification of Mind – Body – Spirit in life and action. Anyway to cut a long story short over the course of a year I had a number of profound spiritual experiences. In terms of music I think these experiences have helped me to connect with the mystery in music – that it is to say something about expressing our life beyond the senses. So when I play and compose I am more often than not, going for that feeling of the mystery of life.

Even more recently where my music has become more political, I try to put my views in the context of questions. Is there a better way? Can we strive for more as human beings? So with a piece like Guantanamo – not only is it a commentary on the wrongful imprisonment of these individuals at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, it is a question? Can we find a better way to relate as human beings than this? It is a prayer and a cry for peace. In this respect my wife Inma, who has a very strong sense of social justice has fostered this influence in my music greatly. She is also Andalucian and I have grow to love the Flamenco sound of Southern Spain where we spend much of the year. When my son Noah was born, he gave me a deeper awareness of my responsibility to counter the injustice in this world and doing what I can to make the world a better place for his generation.

Do you find recording a worthwhile rewarding experience?

Well I love recording and I plan to do another album next year once I have an established band. That is the key thing for me, because I don’t want to go into the studio just because I haven’t recorded in ten years. The music must be an expression of a developing group sound, so I am really keen to form a new group of like minded musicians. In the past I have focused more on getting the ´best´ musicians, but this is not always the same as having the best group. I am aiming to create one solo, one sound from the group, which takes time and the economics of the jazz industry can sometimes work against this. However I am inspired by the example of say Branford Marsalis´group.

For young musicians when do you think is a good time to record?

Well if you mean a commercial release, apart from achieve a certain level of competence in the art form, who is to say. I depends on the individual, but in today’s competitive market it would be wise to grab opportunities if they are presented to you. The main thing is to be ready, and approach your practice with that aim in mind. Having an attitude of readiness when studying, practicing and in life is a good thing. Its all well and good to say I´d like to play and record with so and so, but if they called today, would you be ready?

When you practice what do you aim to get out of it?

For me practicing and performing is a little like scuba diving. It takes you a while to get to depth because you need to get your body adjusted to the pressure. I find the same in music. My practice and playing seems to take on full meaning when I get to that ‘deep’ place where ideas flow and I become a channel for the music. Even in terms of learning technical things, I find my mind is much more pliable when I am in a relaxed, focused almost meditative state. The same with performance. So my first aim is to ´dive´ to a quiet, peaceful and relaxed state. The second is to set my ego aside and allow myself to actually self correct, and focus on what I don´t know. It is so easy to waste time playing what you know. Then your music never changes and you don´t grow as a musician.

Is it part of your purpose do you think to pass on that understanding to younger musicians?

I think my journey in life has helped me bring something fresh to music. I have always maintained other work unrelated to music, and although this phase of my life is all but over, I think my experiences have had a lasting effect on me. I mean managing a residential school for children with challenging behaviour for ten years will have an effect on you. Having to connect with the distress of these children has helped me be open as a player, in the sense I can get to the emotional root of a song very quickly. It was definitely not planned, but I am coming to a balance that allows me full expression of myself. There is a lot of pressure in society to be one thing or another and I have tried to stay away from that. But being clear about what you want and who you are is the most important thing.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts it has been very helpful and interesting.

You’re welcome. God bless you.

May 2007

Vaughan plays on a Signature Custom saxophone www.signaturecustom.co.uk purchased from www.saxopones.co.uk

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